In this interview, Victoria Trumbower shares her unique approach to client relationships, emphasizing personalized service over mass marketing. Learn how Trumbower Financial Advisors has cultivated a loyal client base solely through referrals, eschewing traditional marketing tactics for a focus on delivering exceptional value. Gain valuable insights into leveraging technology, nurturing multi-generational relationships, and navigating regulatory challenges. Join us as we delve into the strategies that have propelled Trumbower Financial Advisors to success and explore the timeless principles of trust and service that underpin their thriving practice.
Watch it here or read the transcript below.
Sovaida Noronha:
I'm excited to be joined here today with Victoria Trumbower, managing member at Trumbower Financial Advisors. In 1981, Victoria began to specialize in personal financial planning by expanding her goal as a closely held business advisor to include the financial concerns of shareholders and their families. She migrated to then, the Big Eight in 1989, when Arthur Young hired her to manage a budding personal financial planning practice within their tax department. She has since cultivated a diverse client base, including corporate executives, retirees, professionals and investors located throughout the US and overseas. She has advised companies and non-profits on compensation, retirement, relocation and downsizing programs. Victoria and her firm have a reputation for excellence and creativity in individual and fiduciary income taxation, as well as wealth transfer planning.
Victoria, thank you so much for joining me today on this interview.
Victoria Trumbower:
It's my pleasure.
Sovaida Noronha:
During our initial communication, we went back and forth about organic growth. Still today, with so many advisors looking at technology as the key to growth, I wanted to share, and I'm going to say your secret sauce, but your perspective on how you have managed to obtain organic growth year after year.
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, it actually started with my very first job in public accounting. The managing partner would talk to us as a group about new clients. His message was, "The best marketing you could ever do is an outstanding job for your existing client, and that client will take care of the rest." That has been my mission. All of our clients are here from referrals, either from other clients, friends and family, or professionals that we work with that know our reputation.
We don't divert our resources toward broad mass marketing efforts. We try and make sure that every minute of every hour is spent making the experience of the existing client the absolute best. That's the message that the people that work here, so none of them required to make rain, or bring in clients, or do anything. All they need to do is their jobs as well as they can, and we develop really close, personal relationships with these people so that when we do get a referral, we don't have to sell ourselves. It's already been sold, I guess. In fact, sometimes we're like, "I'm not sure if we're right." Oh no, they have to have it because their friends and family have it.
If you go on our website, you would find it very rudimentary. It has information about our scope of service and our skillset, but you would have a hard time finding a phone number, or an address, or email address. Some people find that odd, but we don't want people surfing the net looking for an advisor, finding us, contacting us, then we have to divert our resources to talking to them. We don't want to be rude. Nine times out of 10, a person in that position is not really suitable for us.
Now one thing that makes us different is we are not trying to build a low margin, high volume practice. We want to provide value to the clients that we have and to their referrals, and they tend to be less price sensitive. They appreciate what we're doing for them. They know we have our heart and souls in what we're giving them, and they're willing to pay for it. It's been extremely profitable. I don't feel that I need to bring in hundreds of clients.
Sovaida Noronha:
Of course.
Victoria Trumbower:
The couple that we get every year are just fine. We manage to do it with a team that has remained fairly stable over the years. We have 11 people. We've added a position here and there. We have capacity. We're very, very efficient, we don't fool around. There's not a lot of activity that goes on here that isn't focused on delivering the service to the clients, other than compliance. That's a whole other story.
Sovaida Noronha:
Yeah, of course. But in terms of technology, because we are in a technology advanced environment, how are you leveraging technology, or not, to grow your practice?
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, I think it's the more the, or not, except in some respects. Obviously, Teams, Zoom. We have clients, as you mentioned, all over the world. In the past, we did telephone conference calls, so the ability to connect face-to-face with people has been good. Except sometimes, if the client's internet isn't quite as stable as it could be. The face-to-face when it freezes, or it gets blurry, or they can't make the audio work, it actually would be a little more effective if we were just on the phone. That's one thing.
It's always been remote, in some respects. Our presentation materials, for example, this is a very simplistic thing, but we don't use a bullet point in an outline. We always send the client a very detailed report outline, some agenda before we have a conversation. But it's always numbered and there are tables, so that we're not going, "Oh yeah, third bullet point." It is always intended to be handled remotely.
In some cases, technology is a hindrance. They change things up on us. New version of things that are not improvements, but it requires that we ... We're used to clicking over there, or clicking up here, and now we have to get used to a whole new program. Sometimes the operating systems don't mesh. When things are working well, I find advances in technology annoying. I do. Now to the extent technology enhances security, it's something that keeps me up at night. But I have to rely, to a large extent, on some of the third parties that we work with, our custodians and that sort of thing.
I have thought long and hard about AI, that big buzzword. I guess since we're not trying to be robo advisors, we like the personal contact. Everything that we do is totally customized. I don't see a role for that. We have our own research tools that we pay a lot of money for that are focused, so I don't need to go into the web and collect everything anybody knows about an ETF. I already have a place to get that research. We've developed presentation materials, as I mentioned, over the years that we improve every time we use them and we get feedback from clients. We use those as templates, we don't need a machine to come up with a natural language thing. We already have that.
Frankly, even though I'm a CPA and a CFP practitioner, I'm not that good with numbers. My strengths really are in communication and explaining concepts to clients. I have a hard time fitting that into this practice. We have people that answer the phone. Our phones are answered at our desks. We don't have a receptionist.
Sovaida Noronha:
I love it.
Victoria Trumbower:
We don't need an automatic something. I suppose, if I got a robot that could scan things, that would be fine. But it's good to get up out of your chair every once in a while, walk down the hall and scan something.
Here's one of my other real pet peeves. This goes into one of your other discussion points. The idea that you can do and appreciate what we do on your phone, it doesn't work well. Some of the younger clients, you send them something and they're like, "Oh, you didn't send me that." I'm like, "You have to scroll down. You have to make it big. You're not going to be able to appreciate this thing on your phone." Sometimes we go back to the old-fashioned way, we put it in a notebook with tabs and a cover letter, and we mail it to them.
Sovaida Noronha:
Oh, wow. Really? But I love that you have that personal touch. Having the phone at your desk and just answering it, as opposed to having a receptionist, that displays that personal experience where they know that they can always connect you.
Victoria Trumbower:
I make my own appointments. Sometimes people, especially the corporate executive market, they'll say, "Well, I'll have my admin talk to your admin." I'm like, "Well, I am the admin." No one's making my appointments for me, I do it. Outlook is nice, nice to have.
Sovaida Noronha:
Right, of course.
Victoria Trumbower:
I don't need anything fancier than that, really.
Sovaida Noronha:
What are some of the strategies that you're implementing to grow organically? I know you've touched on this. But in terms of beyond referrals, what are those strategies that you sit down with your team to say, "Hey, this is what we need to do and this is how we're going to be progressing to grow next year?"
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, I'm kind of jumping ahead, I think. There's one of the key strategies, and all investment advisors are facing this, is an aging client base. We go the extra yard, mile, 10 miles to engage that second generation, to set up accounts for the kids. These are marketing dollars being spent and marketing time, and sometimes it can be a distraction and a little annoying, but it is so important to get to know those people. Their parents already trust us completely. In fact, in most estate plans, we're there listed as the first person you call if something happens. But we need to establish that trust and that familiarity with that second generation. We get invited to their weddings, they send us the pictures of the grandchildren and the children. That takes time and we're not going to make money on it at that time. But when something happens, and this is really more for my successors, so when these older generations pass on, that the money stays here and the relationship stays here.
There's another thing that I have done strategically, or maybe by accident, is this is a comprehensive practice. We don't just do investment management. In fact, it almost always starts with financial planning, and we do tax returns for people. Not H&R Block returns, but real meaty, ugly ones. That keeps it all in-house. We have two CPAs, three CFAs, and then we all have a CFP certificate in the background. I have been fortunate enough to have been involved in those big accounting firms and the highest level of sophisticated estate planning. We help the client design the wealth transfer plan. We help make sure that the structure of their assets is well-suited for it. If they've get revocable living trusts, we make sure things are titled. In many situations, we can handle the administration of the estate from start to finish. We don't pass off back on to an attorney. That way, we're dealing one-on-one with the executor, with the trustees, and it becomes more or less seamless.
Then of course, we have the resources to do the tax returns, fiduciary returns, the estate returns. Then we will focus on the investment policies for that second generation. How are they different than their parents? Even just with widows. With widows sometimes, they're at a loss but we have that capability to do a technical financial plan that touches on all aspects of their financial lives. Sometimes it's a loss-leader, sometimes we're doing things that we're not being compensated for them today, but we will be compensated for them in the future. Which is what marketing is, I guess.
Sovaida Noronha:
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Speaking of, you brought up wealth transfer. How are you or Trumbower approaching multi-generational wealth transfer? How are you incorporating the next generation? You mentioned next generation, you're attending those weddings, and I love that aspect as well. But how are you approaching it?
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, we're controlling it. We're trying to control the process from beginning to end.
Sovaida Noronha:
You're bringing in that next generation into that conversation with the parents early on, to be able to-
Victoria Trumbower:
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But we're also bringing the technical expertise that many firms like us don't have. We've got a background in accounting, and tax compliance, and estate planning, and estate administration so that we can help that client design the plan. We know how it's supposed to work so that when something happens, that next generation automatically, we're the go-to, we already have a relationship with them. Then, we work on the next generation to be sure that they have estate planning.
It's not always just technical. We have to get into really hard conversations with maybe children that aren't functioning well. What kind of safeguards can we help them put into place? We here all have our own personal experiences and we're not ... I don't want to be, I don't know, sexist, but we're not pin-striped suits. We're approachable. We're empathetic and they can share all kinds of things that are difficult to talk about with us so we can help them address those issues.
Sovaida Noronha:
Of course, absolutely. On that other side, are you bringing in team members that are younger advisors that will be able to connect with that next generation as well? How is that looking?
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, I have a team in place that's pretty well established. Most people have been here for 20 years or more, they're in their 40s. The kind of work that we do requires experience. You can't really learn it. You can't come out of college with a degree in it. We do bring in interns frequently, with the idea that when they graduate, if we have a slot for them and we need them, they will have had some comfort level with our practice.
Many times, I send them out into the world and let them get their practice elsewhere, and then they come here. Then they know what they don't want to do.
Sovaida Noronha:
Right.
Victoria Trumbower:
Yeah. Am I bringing in, what are they called?
Sovaida Noronha:
Next gen?
Victoria Trumbower:
No. That's not a deliberate strategy. It will happen as we age out. My sister's our office manager, I expect she'll retire when I do. Her son will take over that job, and then we'll need somebody young to come in and fill his role, and so on and so forth. But right now, we're very stable. I think we are communicating pretty well with that group of people. We're not so old and decrepit that they don't hear us and they don't want to interact with us. We can be fun and we can put ourselves in those shoes. But they really look to us as role models and where they aspire to be, and to help them get their financial houses in order.
I am so, so complimentary when a young couple or a young person recognizes that you can start too young to get your house in order. Then again, loss-leader. We'll do a plan for you, sometimes daddy and mommy will pay for it. If they don't, okay.
Sovaida Noronha:
Of course, absolutely. What is your advice to other allocators on some of the concerns that you're seeing in today's environment?
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, now this is my opinion and it's not a popular one, but alternatives. Okay, my experience is, and we know principles in these major companies who are marketing these alternatives to retail level, even the next level clients, and they will confirm my opinion, they keep the good stuff for themselves. Your client's not going to get the good stuff. It's expensive. The way we do business, it's redundant. Bit institutions, fine. But for our clients, it doesn't have a place, and it is very expensive and very complicated, and probably unnecessary if you really pick it apart. But it's popular.
These robo things that I think ... We do tax returns for clients where we don't always manage all their money. The things we see are sometimes frightening. A system that is buying and selling, and buying and selling, and buying and selling a share-and-a-half with pages, and pages, and pages, and pages of transactions, what are you getting out of this?
Sovaida Noronha:
Yeah.
Victoria Trumbower:
Nothing. Again, it's expensive and complicated. Just because everybody's talking about it, it doesn't make it a good thing.
The other challenge that I'm seeing out there, and I don't know how to fix it, I hope that more investment advisors will become engaged in it, the SEC is out of control and so is DOJ. These are bureaucrats that don't have anything else to do but write regulation after regulation that targets things that are simply not issues for most people. If you've got people who are out there who are fraudulent, they're going to be fraudulent and you're not going to stop them. But to try and impose all of this very structure, boilerplate, nonsensical language that we're supposed to communicate to clients that's supposed to make them understand things better but really, it's just make work. All it does is make work for people and it's going to reduce our productivity. It takes resources away from our ability to do what we're trying to do, which is the best thing for the client.
I know they have public comment periods, and I would hope that more of us will participate in those to try and rein them in a little bit. Yeah, we need to have regulation, we need to protect the client, but we need a little common sense and it has gone way beyond that, in my opinion.
So, what else? Our viewpoint is you keep it simple.
Sovaida Noronha:
Okay.
Victoria Trumbower:
Make it cost-effective. If you don't understand it, don't do it.
Sovaida Noronha:
Let's go into your-
Victoria Trumbower:
Make it customized for that client's situation.
Sovaida Noronha:
Of course, yeah. Again, going to the last question that I just asked, but considering your areas of expertise, what improvements would you like to see in our industry?
Victoria Trumbower:
I don't know what they're doing, but I have to rely on third parties, so our custodians. I want to make sure that they really are as secure as they say they are. You get the letters all the time from places where there's been a data breach. I know that our custodians try really hard, and yet at the same time, they are always looking for ways to make themselves more profitable that involve technology that I think exposes transactions to more cyber risk. I'd like to see people be less focused on convenience and their own margins, and more on is scanning this chat really the right thing from your phone? I know people do it.
I had $188,000 worth of tax payments stolen from the mail, US Post Office, and someone was able to negotiate them even though they were obviously fraudulent. Some of this technology stuff, I want to make sure it's really secure.
Sovaida Noronha:
Technology isn't really what you would say is your first line of defense?
Victoria Trumbower:
Not the kind of technology that allows me to serve more people with fewer people.
Sovaida Noronha:
Yeah.
obviously, the things I mentioned before. Microsoft, if you didn't switch it up, my people would not have spent hours trying to figure out where the dropdown button is for this and that, and then they can focus more on the client. The trading platforms that they roll out, sometimes they're enhancements, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes they haven't been properly thought through. I don't want the technology to write the plan, they can't. We're happy to spend our time doing those things, as opposed to letting a machine do it. I would really like to not ... Again, I mentioned we have to rely on third parties. To the extent possible, I like to keep things in house because I have my own IT consultant, I vet them, I pay them. I don't want to go down. If I am forced to do business and use a third party, I'm at the mercy of their maintenance schedules and things like that.
Sovaida Noronha:
Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd like to give an advisor that's looking to grow their practice?
Victoria Trumbower:
Well, the way I did it, I don't know. You got to start somewhere. The way I did it was to start in a place that already had clients and impress those clients with the fact that what they got in the way of outstanding service had nothing to do with that big company, it had to do with me. I left those companies to start my own practice, they came with me like Velcro. Yeah, I pulled all-nighters. I worked weekends if I had to, and holidays. I don't see a lot of people interested in doing that, but that's how I did it. I did it raising a family, single parent for a while, that kind of thing. It involved grueling, hard work, but it paid off.
Sovaida Noronha:
Okay.
Victoria Trumbower:
Now I can let them take care of it. Now it will take four of them to replace me, but that's okay. There's plenty here so there's enough here to support four principles, no problem.
Sovaida Noronha:
Well, Victoria, this was super insightful. I love the few words that you used. It's trust, trust was a big one because trust with clients. Service your clients, put them first and they take care of the rest with referrals. I love that philosophy of yours.
Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your insights, expertise and perspectives with our audience. If viewers wanted to connect with you, what would be the best way?
Victoria Trumbower:
I suppose you could give them my email address if they want to.
Sovaida Noronha:
I appreciate you, thank you so much.
Victoria Trumbower:
Thank you. It was a pleasure. Have a great day.
