This interview is with Andrew Stewart, the chief investmentofficer of Exchange Capital Management, with $750 million in assets undermanagement. He specializes in individuals and families of wealth. During thisinterview, he'll discuss how he manages his staff with radical candor, how he applies his tech background to investment probabilities and portfolio construction, how he approaches due diligence, and risk tolerance.
- Watch the video interview here with key takeaways or read the transcript below:
Christine Giordano Markets Group:
So of course, let's just jump right into it. What do youwhat is your role at exchange Capital Management?
Andrew Stewart:
To describe my role, I also need to talk about theentire team for a moment. So we are a registered investment advisor. We'retherefore fiduciaries, we specialize in doing goals-based financial planningfor our clients, most of whom, as you said, are high net worth individuals andfamilies, many of whom know us locally and personally, if you're in southeasternMichigan, we're based in Ann Arbor.
I am our Chief Investment Officer, I ampart of a three person team that's responsible for managing the assets insideof our clients' portfolios. We also have a number of advisors whointerface with clients directly, and are supported by a financial planningteam. We also have administrative folks and marketing folks. But if you thinkabout those, those two different groups, the client-facing advisors who focuson the financial planning aspect of our work, and my team, that focuseson the investment management part of our work, those are two separate anddistinct teams. We call ourselves 'an ensemble practice,' which means we're allworking together, the clients belong collectively to the firm, and we're allworking as a team to service those clients.
And because we think aboutservicing clients in that way, it allows us to provide uniform and consistentinvestment management for my team, regardless of which advisor over on theother side of the office is managing the relationship. So that's one of thethings that that is a distinction between so many other firms.
We're not theonly firm that is ensemble in nature. But there are plenty of other firms thatare more siloed based where each advisor might provide a slightly differentservice offering for their stable of clients versus the other advisor in theoffice next to them. So my role here is to manage our models, kind of the pointon the horizon that all of our clients are steering towardsover time.
And I supervise the portfolio manager and the traders who aredoing trades on a regular basis in all of our clients' accounts, steering themtowards that point on the horizon, while also delivering what our clientsexpect out of those accounts, when they are drawing down on them and takingdistributions raising the cash when needed, or if they are perhaps younger and in the accumulation phase, and are putting cash into these accounts on regular basisgetting input to work consistently.
And per our standardized procedures.So my role is both investment manager, reading research, designing the models,doing due diligence on outside managers when we need them. My role is alsoleadership and operational in nature, because I'm managing this team that isexecuting day to day on those general ideas of the investment management modelsthat we have for equities and fixed income and municipal bonds alternative soon and so forth.
Giordano:
And in this current economy, what are you seeing take shape?
Stewart:
I know, we're going to talk about what kind of whatkeeps us up at night. So maybe I'll reveal the headline a little bit there.There are always things to worry about in financial markets, even when you see awhole bunch of assets at all time highs, that still engenders anxiety in a lotof people.
And many of our clients are no different than they, even when thingsare going quite well over the past 15 months. There's a good amount of anxietyto be processed through. So I think there is worry, both in the retailinvestors mind and you know, in the market overall, obviously, in an electionyear.
When youdo the research, though, I do think that earnings have kept up, we are seeing there are always some companies that are overpriced, andthere are others that are underpriced. But there's still a good amount ofvalue to be had in owning equities, if the long term goal of your portfolio isto generate growth, and since it is clear that the Fed might not becutting rates as early as many in the stock market would prefer.
It does seemthat rate hikes are over. And in a stable rate environment, corporate Americacan process through their quarterly processes and their balance sheet issues,when they're fairly confident that they can issue debt at these levels, right?
So I see that it's a good thing that rate hikes are over. Of course, and youknow, a long duration growth investment person would love for rates to be 100basis points lower than they are right now.
But stability is better than nothing. So I'm cautiously optimistic that that we should be able to processthrough a reasonably good economy over the next year or two, I think it's notgoing to be gangbusters. But things should be okay. And in the meantime, on thelower-risk asset side, you can go buy bonds and earn, you know, well overthree, four. And if you take the bet on short duration money market above 5%right now, and that's a heck of a lot better for risk- free rates than you couldget three or four years ago.
So that's the silver lining, you know, after therate, the rising rates, that was a very painful transition. But now here we canmake some money at low risk again.
Giordano:
And are your individuals of wealth showing concerns? Arethey expecting a bull market?
Stewart:
It really depends on the person, right? When it comes toinvesting, much of it has to do with your stomach. And how firm itis, as it does the kind of psychological processes of analyzing an economy.That's where actually the work that my colleagues on the advisory and planningside, the work they do on financial planning, helps that a lot. Because ifyou are working with somebody where they've saved a good amount of money, butyou know, it's not so much that they that they can do nothing wrong, they have to plan out the rest of their lives correctly to make surethat they don't run out.
You do high quality financial planning that can leadto a proper asset allocation. And then you also take into account how firm their stomach is, especially if you try to quizthem, like asking, how did you feel in March of 2020? How didyou feel in November of 2008?
If you can kind of counsel through that process,you can land on an asset allocation that helps immunize a lot of that stress,right? So if you do find yourself with somebody that has enough that they don'tneed the portfolio to grow it out, for them, they have enough to make make thefinancial plan work.
But if they lose a lot, they might be in trouble, well,then you can de-risk the portfolio, don't have too much allocated tostocks. And as I said, in this kind of fixed income environment, earn a fairrate of return on the ballast side, the bond side of the portfolio, then evenif you do go into a recession later this year or next year, and a correction or even a bear market onequities comes with it, well, if you don't have too much allocated equities, the portfolio isstill going to be okay. And we can prove that through good financial planningboth now in advance and when it's happening later.
At the same token, we haveclients who are well over 70 years old. And if you looked at one ofthose articles in AARP and looked at the table of age, you mightsay, this portfolio should not have a lot of stocks, and it shouldn't have alot of growth. But we have folks who have saved millions of dollars, and theydid it all, sometimes by just spending less than they earned for an entirelifetime.
And that's a really hard habit to break even in retirement. And nowthey have millions of dollars. And they aren't drawing on those portfolios. Andthey know that and they recognize that this is money that is going to, in somecase, charities, or children or grandchildren, and they are really just stewardsof capital, that isn't even theirs. Andwhen a client is in that state of mind, they could be 100% equities. They don't need to have ballast in theirportfolio, because it's not money that they're going to be drawing down on. Andif they are in a state of mind that can also tolerate the volatility thatcomes with that growth engine, they can do it.
And again, these arethe kinds of conversations that we have in this conference room with ourclients, figuring out where they are in terms of the plan, and where they arein terms of their state of mind, to be able to get to a good asset allocation,that services whatever their goal may be, whether it's their lives, or futuregenerations for charity.
Giordano:
Sounds like you have a very nice process for risk tolerance. And I hope that we're all in that position where we don't have to worry.
So just in talking aboutthat, can you tell me about your investment office? How many do your staff? Andyour client demographics?
My investment office is three people. We manage $700 millionin assets that's spread across over 300 clients. Each of those clients hassometimes one account more often a handful of accounts, IRAs, and tax trusts,and so forth. All of those accounts are managed individually. But we, the team, is supported by a pretty significant tech stack that allows us to systematizethe portfolio management processes.
I think that with a firm this size, withthis many clients with the kind of service that our clients are expecting, itwould be very difficult for three people to do it if this was 30 years ago andwe didn't have the technology tools that we have available today.
Because withproper model software and an order management system and a CRM system to helpprocess instructions, we can have advisors have meetings with clients that leadto, you know, instructions that need to make changes in portfolios, which thengets passed off to our team. And I can build a model that gets coded into ourportfolio management system, and then it's applied uniformly to all of theaccounts that meet those requirements. And then my team can very easily dosearches every morning that says, show me all of the accounts that have alittle bit too much cash in them because, you know, perhaps we sold somethingyesterday or a client makes a contribution or a bond matures and a bunch ofcash is delivered or dividends paid out in a large position of stock.
I can do a searchthat shows me all the accounts that have a little bit too much cash. So now wehave that list of accounts that need work done on them. A different searchmight say, show me all the accounts that are overweight stocks versus bonds andother ballast by more than 3%. And then because we know our client accounts pretty well, [we will often have a sense for when the markets move to make things overweight, like, for example, right now in the technology sector.] So the systemshows me all the accounts that are overweight equities. And then I can applysome subjective knowledge of the whole ecosystem and say, 'All right, let's setup a process for all the accounts that are overweight equities, sell this (name) that Andy has identified as something that we'd like to take profits offthe table on inside technology, and the system can do that for you. Andthen the job as the human is to go check the system's work.
But having that techstack there to do the first two or three parts, do the filtering, set up theautomated trade, makes it possible for a three person team to manage thekind of assets and number of accounts that we're dealing with. Incredible technology has really facilitated smaller steps. Yeah, I don't think it's possible to run a firm like this these days without embracing the use of technology. I think it's really inefficient andalmost impossible otherwise.
Giordano:
How do youdetermine when to insource instead of outsource? What's your process, on what your staff handles?
A lot of our assets here in Exchange Capital Management areinvested in individual stocks, and some individual bonds, even in the processof picking those individual stocks as a CFA charter, I've learned how to dothe cash flow models on spreadsheets. I could be spending hours ofmy time doing hardcore analysis on individual companies, but I'm also ageneralist, and I have a lot of other things to do with my time. And if I can findhigh quality research that's done by people outside of our firm that I agreewith consistently over time, then that's a good place to outsource, right?
Find a team of analysts that havetheir specialties, whether it's based on sector or geography or other things, dothe due diligence on their research, decide that you agree with it. And then, ifyou do, pay some money to get access to that research, for the next year, readit, consume it and make decisions based on their work. Letthose specialists be those specialists. And I'm the generalist who processesthat information.
Giordano:
In your small office, how do you approach due diligence on theinvestment side? And the operationalside?
Well, for the individual stock research, I think it doescome down to the fact that there are a number of good ways of thinking about the world. Ihave to my team, and our advisors have to explain how we think about the worldto our clients. There's a lot of storytelling involved in this work whenyou're dealing with managing somebody else's money if they aren't bought inwith how you think about the world. And if they don't know what they own, thensooner or later, their anxiety when markets go sideways, will keep themfrom making a high quality decision in that moment. It's still theirmoney, and they can go in and delink you from the account or make trades ontheir own anytime they want.
So if the client hasn't bought in, eventually you're going to have trouble. It needs to be a thing: that our advisors and I, as the chief investment officer, and my team, whenthey're in front of clients, can articulate 'this is how we think about theworld.'
So in terms of finding research, for the individual stock picking: there are multiple different ways of doing stock analysisand they are all valid in their own right, but you need to find something thatfits with how you think about the world consistently so that you can lean onthem to make decisions without finding yourself disagreeing with you know, apiece of analysis three, three months later and then throwing the entireprocess out and having to start from scratch.
So that's part of it: findsynergy or harmony with the outsourced team that you've chosen to outsourceresearch to.
Then there are other parts of our clients' portfolios that are not individual stocks, and this is where operational duediligence is important as well. We don't use all individual securitiesthroughout the entire portfolio. Even in the largest portfolio, we use ETFs andparts of equities, right, we might buy a few small cap stocks, but we wanta larger weighting towards small cap and mid cap ETFs to make it much easier than trying to build a diversified portfolio of all individualsecurities. Same thing can be said for international exposure, I believe incurrency hedging, and developed international investing, which I know is a bitof a minority view, it's maybe a conversation for another day. But you can't dothat on your own, at least not efficiently inside of somebody's million dollarIRA, ETFs can.
Giordano:
I can't resist a quick question. What's your favoritecurrency to hedge?
Stewart:
I always want to hedge most of the currency risk away in Eurostocks, great British stocks, Japanese stocks, all the developed markets. Realresearch done by other folks that that you can read will show that overtime, it sometimes helps and sometimes hurts performance. over long periods oftime, the performance pick up effects effectively turns into zero.
And italways adds volatility.
The only time you want exposure to the currency is ifyou think that that foreign currency is going to do better than your homecurrency. And if you live in a developed market, and you're investingin a different developed market, there's no reason to think that that otherdeveloped market is going to do better than yours over any long period of time.That whole argument goes away in the world of emerging markets, right?
I thinkpart of the investment thesis and investing in Brazil or China or India, that those entire economies are growing, they're still developing and should begrowing faster than the US or Europe or Japan. And in that case, younot only want to have exposure to the stock in that country, but you also wantto have exposure to the currency in that country. But in developed markets, you don't want the currency exposure. And ETFs are the onlyefficient way to do that inside accounts of the size that we're dealing with.
So I'm very much one to outsource some of our investment management. Again, Imentioned a few examples. on the equity side. Certainly in the bond side, weuse a lot of ETFs. There are more liquid than individual corporates and munis alot of the time. So there are benefits of liquidity. But once you've decided tooutsource, not just the research, but the entire investment management process,whether it's a passive structure, or an active ETF, you need to learn a lotabout how those portfolio managers are doing their jobs.
Folks in our positionhave been doing that in the active management mutual fund side for manydecades. And now that the active ETF is here, I think that that kind of skillset has come back to people sitting in my position. But even in passive ETFs,you need to know what index that portfolio manager is tracking. And is thatactually the exposure you want.
In the case of small caps are there are two big indexes, the Russell 2000, the S&P 600. The S&P 600 has a profitability filter thatleads to different performance, and, looking backwards and should lead todifferent expected performance going forwards.
That is an active choice thatyou have to make as an allocator to an external manager—what index youwant, you also need to think about how well it trades, how liquid it is, what theexpense ratio is—there is real due diligence to be done even in the most plainvanilla, passive ETF strategies out there. And then, since there are things thatare not just plain vanilla, the work stacks on even more if you're dealing withfixed income ETFs. The indices can become very custom and nuanced, which is agood thing.
They've developed high quality products that areuseful to our clients and useful for the portfolios we're trying to build, but youbetter know how those things are built and how they're going to perform and howthey fit inside the rest of the ecosystem that you're building for yourclients.
And then in the world of active ETFs goes a whole one level further.And for all of this, the operational side, which you alluded to earlier,operational due diligence is important. It has to do with 'Do you know if therehigh quality compliance? Do they have good market makers so the ETFs are liquidand stay liquid even when markets are tough? If you're doing a big trade,do you have the support of the Capital Markets team at the asset manager tohelp you find liquidity beyond what you just see in the bid?
There's often hiddenliquidity in ETS, but you have to know who to call at the asset manager to findout if that liquidity is actually there today. Or if it might be theretomorrow, and if it's not.
And you need to think about co-investor risk; that thereare other people buying this fund as well. And if there's one big decision-maker who has control over 10s, or even hundreds of millions of dollars ofassets inside of a particular fund, and then that investment committee changestheir mind and decides that, oh, we're not going to use that fund anymore,we're going to use this other one instead. And then suddenly, you see a quarterof the assets of that fund going out the door, and you are owning a larger andlarger portion of that fund on behalf of your clients.
You need to think aboutthat, and what you're going to do when that happens, all of those kinds ofthings fall into the role of operational due diligence in my mind.
Giordano:
Fascinating, thank you for putting it into such a 'digestible' perspective. It just must be such a next level of trust, when a family comes toyou with whatever wealth they've accumulated and placed that due diligence inyour hands. I'm curious to know about your background. How did you come to this?
Stewart:
I was trained as an engineer in college. And shortlythereafter, graduated looking for my first job in a particularniche of engineering that wasn't very employable without a master's degree. Systems engineering. And you mentioned, clients putting a lot oftrust in us, you're absolutely right.
They do.
Some of them love to hear all ofthese details about the work that we do. But sometimes I run the risk of kindof going down the rabbit hole too much and getting into the details beyondwhat they actually wanted. And my weird background is perhaps part of thatstory, but trained as an engineer, went to Case Western in Cleveland for systemsengineering, which was fairly a young and smaller form of engineering atthe time, moved up to Boston, shortly after getting married and spent some timein the nonprofit world doing technology work, but always had an interest in themarkets and moved over to the world of investing in finance, went to BostonCollege, during the Great Financial Crisis, which was a wonderful time to studymarkets, and then landed at John Hancock a couple years later.
For those who don't know, John Hancock mutual is a fullyself advised mutual fund platform. So there's a whole team of people there, whodo sub advisor due diligence mandate, much of the things we've been talkingabout already today. And I sat alongside that team doing strategy work at JohnHancock, right alongside this group of due diligence analysts figuring out whowere going to be the portfolio managers for the John Hancock mutual funds.
Butagain, I'm from the Midwest, I grew up in southeastern Michigan, so my wifewanted to move back here and we made the transition back to Michigan, close toDetroit, at a boutique fund of hedge funds just north of Detroit.
And it was our job to figure out which underlyinghedge funds we wanted to invest in, both from a kind of strategy perspective,long term equity, versus global macro, versus credit, and then also inside ofthose areas, which funds and how much to allocate. So, John Hancock public assets, public markets, stocks and bonds, andthen at the fund of hedge funds, spending a lot of time doing due diligence onthe hedge fund world alternative asset classes.
I came to Exchange CapitalManagement in 2017 to lead our investment efforts, where now you can see it'svery natural for me to kind of take that due diligence first approach, and decide where does it make sense to use thoseexternal managers? Where does it make sense to use individual securities?
Giordano:
Interesting, as far as the systems engineer experience, you canprobably also apply that to FinTech. And have you used your engineering mindin behavioral predictive ways or any other kinds of methods?
Stewart:
So this is a common question. Systems engineering is really apractice that you can take wherever you want. It has to do with analyzingcomplex systems and complex systems can be markets: that's the dream, right? Ifyou've built a computer program that can actually understand andconsistently predict how the stock market is going to behave, you can make afortune. The trick is that it is a complex system, it probably has a dose ofchaos, there's a whole other field of physics and engineering that'schaos theory, that explains that some of these things you can never predictbecause of chaos. So I think that theoretically, and perhaps intuitively, theworld of systems engineering can be applied to how you think about markets. Forme, it often falls into what I call probabilistic thinking that actuallypredicting what is going to happen is very, very difficult, and probably doeshave a good dose of chaos. But you can lay out a landscape of probability infront of you and allocate likelihoods, even broad likelihoods to differentthings.
So a good example is what is the economy going to do over thenext year? Right? The two biggest likely examples are that we're either goingto be in slow growth or mild recession. Right? Is there a possibility that theUS economy is going to grow at 5% over the next year? Yes. But is that a veryhigh likely scenario? No, is there a possibility that we're going to have areally bad recession and we shrink by something more than 2% Over the next year?Yes. But that's also less likely than something like the economy is probablygoing to be somewhere between negative -1,5 and +3.5 over the next year.
And once you can kind of put some bookends on the mostlikely scenario that gives you confidence to act inside those bookends,assuming that some of those things are true. And then again, it goes back tothe financial planning, right? If financial planning is done wrong, then youhave a whole bunch of portfolios that cannot tolerate, oh, what if it isnegative 4%? You need the financial planning and the asset allocation to be able totolerate that unlikely but possible event, without it being disastrous in thelives of your clients.
Giordano:
Make sense. So you're systematically and scientifically reviewingthe risk and the parameters around it?
Stewart:
...and then remember that everything is probabilistic. And there arelikely things and unlikely things and you shouldn't spend a ridiculousamount of money or time insuring against extremely unlikely events.
We think it's easy to kind of sum it all up real quick, it's as easy as insurance, which plays areal valuable role in people's lives. But would you be willing to spend$100,000 a year for $10 million worth of insurance when your heirs don'tactually need it? Is that a good trade off? There are limits to how muchinsurance people buy in their lives. They apply some reasonableness to that. Ithink about portfolio management in the same way.
Giordano:
I like that nice analogy. Which brings us to one of probably the mostcommon questions, what keeps you up at night?
Stewart:
So we talked about this a little bit already. Markets are volatile.Unexpected things happen. Low probability events happen. When they doit's stressful. Those are the things that could keep us up at night. But Ithink that those of us who have chosen to spend our lives beingprofessionals in this space, that's part of the process.You're signing up for that, that anxiety, that uncertainty will exist, andyou build a team around yourself when you find systems and tools that help youact rationally, even when things get stressful.
But I found that the thingsthat keep me up at night, even when markets are being kindto us, has to do with the humans that we work with. We are managing these assets on behalf of individuals, sometimes entire families. To dothat properly, we are intimately engaged in, in their lives and their hopes,their dreams, their fears. They talk to us about these things while we'remeeting with them so that we can help meet them where they're at, in terms oftheir goal setting and their emotional state, and do whatever we can to usetheir money to help solve those problems and reach those goals.
Furthermore, clients becomefriends, friends become clients, we care for these people on a number ofdifferent levels. And there are so many times when the money can't solve theproblem. But we're still in the thick of it with them. They have anaging parent, an ailing parent, or sibling they're worried about, the childrenare graduating from college and struggling to find their first job.
These are real human problems that money can make easier, certainly in thecase of health care, but they don't make them go away. And we see our clientsstruggle through that. And because we have spent so much time getting to knowthem and understanding these things and what they want out of life, I oftenfind myself thinking about these problems that we can't solve. And that's thekind of stuff that keeps me up at night.
It applies to my team as well. I care about my team a lot. I'm friends with a number of them. I care aboutthe work that they do here for our clients. And I also care about their careersand other parts of their lives. They, they fall in love, they getmarried, they have children, they have parents struggling, they get divorced,they have children who you know, are graduating from college and having a hardtime finding their first job. I really care about these humans that I work with. It's one of the reasons I love coming to this job. And why I chose ExchangeCapital Management over seven years ago is because I thought, Oh, these aresome humans that I think I might actually want to spend a lot of my time with.I can't say that about all firms. So I care about them, too. And that keeps meup at night.
Giordano:
That's a beautiful thing, you know, to be a human and an InvestmentOfficer at the same time. So I'm guessing that you're sometimes in the conflicted position of grooming your team to actually leave your firm. Can you go intothat?
I alluded to that a moment ago talking about managing theircareers. Not always, but a lot of folks, we hire right out ofcollege. We have a couple of financial planning positions we have forpeople in the financial planning role right now. We have found that it's oftenvery efficient for what we need to hire people right out of college or maybe a year or two after, into that entry level financial planning role, that they work on thinking aboutthe CFP, get some client facing experience. And maybe someday they think aboutbecoming a financial advisor. We also have that same entry level role on myteam as a trader.
We don't need somebody with trading experience to hire themas a trader, we've seen somebody good enough at Excel, who's very detailoriented, and has an interest in markets and we will teach you everything you needto know. The tricky part is that if you hire intelligent, ambitious people,there's a very good chance their careers will accelerate faster than thebusiness does to satisfy the hopes and dreams and desires of their career. Andso, financial planning, it feeds right into into the adviserwork and if we're growing and gaining new clients, there should always be morework to be done there. The trader side is a little bit tougher.
And mythoughts on this apply to all entry level positions and kind of mid level positions, that if we start saying out loud, there might not be the nextstep for you here at Exchange Capital, when you want it. We don't know exactly what the future holds: there might be the next opportunity when you getthere, when you finish that certification, achieve that skill, figure out allthe soft stuff around talking to clients and those things, we hope that thosethat next position does exist.
But if it doesn't, I don't think that the rightthing for the firm or the team, let alone that the human that we're talkingabout is to lie to them about 'oh, yeah, you know, we'll figure out that whenyou get to it, I'm sure we'll have something good for you just keep your nosedown and keep working.'
And then when the time comes, then you give them the badnews, or maybe you obfuscate even more, eventually, and again, an intelligentambitious person is going to recognize that you've been misleading them foryears now. And they will find somewhere else to go, and they'll do so in adisappointed way. And then you leave on bad terms. And they tell the worldabout that. Right? People talk about their experiences at other firms.
I'd muchrather be radically candid with people aboutthe uncertainty and tell them, you know, here's what will probably happen.Here's another thing that is almost as likely. And then here are a couple oflow probability examples of what can happen. And I do that in the interviewprocess, just radically candid about the uncertainty and explain to themthat I am here for as their mentor, and leader and sometimes even directmanager, and how my door is open, and they should come talk to me.
And thiswill be a conversation that starts now in the interview phase will continuethroughout your entire employment in with Exchange Capital.
But I have a lot of folks that I know here insouth eastern Michigan and beyond, I'm friends with lots of them. Let meintroduce you to the firms that I think will might be good fits for you.Because now you've been with us for a few years, I know you well enough that you'd love working for them. And then even if they ended up leaving, it'sbittersweet, because obviously they're the high quality employee here, wewouldn't be having these these conversations. And we'll be sad to seethem go. But I'll also be happy that they're doing what's right for theircareer, and they're leaving on good terms. And maybe we'll get them back in thefuture. When things that at our firm change and things in their career change.
I just I have a lot of examples now over the past seven years where that methodof doing things has led to a much higher quality experience for the people whohave stayed and the people who have left. And I think that peoplereally appreciate the honesty, even in the uncertainty.
Sometime they kind of see what else is out there and decide they're going to be patient. They'd rather roll the dice on things working out here then making a bigshift. Radical candor makes managing theircareers easier, and it makes the entire process more joyful and collaborativethan it is otherwise.
Markets Group
Thank you. That's Andy Stewart. He's chiefinvestment officer of Exchange Capital Management. I want to thank you for yourtime today, Andy, and it was wonderful to talk with you and hear your insights on howyou managed with integrity.
Stewart
Thanks. I appreciate it. As you can see, I'm verypassionate about a lot of these things. I appreciate the opportunity to talk toyou. Thank you.
